Adam Pastor,
Thank you for posting your comment. I did as you asked and prayerfully considered the video. I've listened to "The Human Jesus" and I'm glad that it's addressing the Trinity. However, I do have some major issues with the documentary. First of all most orthodox Christian believe in the Trinity do not believe that there are three separate gods (video spot or around 15:00). One God Three Person. It can be reduced to logic. Think of it as this way. How can a flawed human individual (supposing Jesus was just truly a human - which is the logical conclusion hinted in the video) be the perfect sacrifice for sins if He is not fully God as well? He couldn't because His sacrifice would be tainted. Univeral Unitarianism (not be confused with biblical Unitarianism, although through my brief research, they have the same roots) belief system falls apart when it comes to the creation of the world as well. For example, nothing existed before God. It was only God and God alone (visited other websites, both pro and con, about universal Unitarianism). How can He be perfect sacrifice if he was only just a flawed sinful human. The Gospel of John clearly states that the Word became flesh and dwelt among us AND was in the beginning of the world. He actually was active in creating the world. He actually claimed this in His interrogation (spelling?). He stated, before Abraham, I was. This is a term reserved in religious writing reserved for God. God in the Old Testament referenced Himself as "I AM", and Christ said before religious authorities the same statement. That is one of the reasons why the authorities wanted to curse Him by hanging Him on a cross. He said that He was the God of the Old Testament. This wasn't the only time He did this. It's just one example. He did the same thing numerous times in the Gospel of John. He knew what He was doing when He said this. He knew He was comparing Himself to God. The only way He could do was a. He was insane. or b. He was what He claimed to be. Other books of the Bible also attest to Him being God. Paul did this repeatedly in his letters (not only in the questioned). Paul referenced the Sacrifice of Jesus as being a complete sacrifice because he was both Man and God.
He (Jesus) did believe in the schema "Hear oh Israel, the is God, the Lord is One." But as stated earlier, He made Himself to be God by the I AM statements.
There is only one God and He is Holy. The only one who could be Holy is God. Holiness can only be attributed to God. So how can the Spirit not be God since the Scripture itself attributes Holiness to the Spirit. I know that's an impacted statement, but it would take much more space... I'll finish with this. God (the second person in the Trinity) made Himself man to complete God the Father's (First person of the Trinity) plan for our salvation. He came to the world through the power of the Holy Spirit. He was Holy (therefore God because only God is Holy) before He was born through the Holy Spirit can do Holy things (I'm hoping that makes sense to you I can't think of any other way of putting just off the top of my head).
http://www.apologeticsindex.org/u07.html This is a definition of Universal Unitarianism, for those who are interested.
Thank you for you interested in my blog. I hope we can have more discussions about the basics of Christian faith.
Greetings LordLuvU
ReplyDeleteThanks for taking the time to watch the video and thanks for your comments.
First, you at the very least imply that Jesus our Lord and Savior, is a "flawed" human individual!
(Your words, not mind!)
Flawed!! Pray do tell, how could you reason such a thing?
How can GOD's only begotten, sinless, totally obedient Son be a "flawed" human individual??
He was no more "flawed" than the First Adam was (before he had sinned).
Jesus the Last Adam was tempted in all points, yet without sin.
[Heb. 4.15, 2.14-18]
He learned obedience by the things which he suffered; and as such was "made perfect".
[Heb. 5.8-9]
Since BY MAN came death, BY MAN came also the resurrection of the dead.
[1 Cor 15.21]
Jesus of Nazareth was THAT MAN! That sinless, spotless, human individual who indeed qualified to be "the Lamb" for our sins.
Look again at Rom. 5:15-19 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many. 16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification. 17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.) 18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. 19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
So it wasn't a flawed human individual who died for our sins; but rather, it was the sinless Son of GOD, Jesus of Nazareth, the Last Adam who died for our sins.
And according to Rom 5:15-19, Heb 2.14-18; such a sacrifice had to be done by "a man, a human individual."
Thus the Scriptures declare that it had to be "a man." And Jesus is indeed "that man," a man approved of GOD.
[Acts 2.22]
His sacrifice therefore was untainted.
Besides GOD CANNOT DIE - He alone has immortality.
[1 Tim 6.16]
So Jesus was not "fully God" as you put it.
Rather he is the man Christ Jesus.
[1 Tim 2.5]
You said: "nothing existed before God. It was only God and God alone."
Amen. See Isaiah 44.24
BTW a "word" is an IT not a he! Jesus therefore, is GOD's word made flesh.
GOD's word through which all things came into existence became flesh in the person of Jesus of Nazareth.
As Colin Brown said (as featured in the video):
"It is a common but patent misreading of the opening of John's Gospel to read it as if it said: 'In the beginning was the Son, and the Son was with God and the Son was God' (John 1:1).
What has happened here is the substitution of Son for Word (Greek logos), and thereby the Son is made a member of the Godhead which existed from the beginning."
As for John 8.58, this is already addressed in the video.
Therefore see also,
Is Jesus the "I AM?"
The reason why the authorities wanted to curse Jesus by hanging Him on a cross
ReplyDeletewas because he claimed to be GOD's Son.
[Mark 14.61-62, Matt 26.63-64; John 19.7; Matt 27.43]
There is absolutely nothing in Scripture to suggest that Jesus was crucified because somehow he inexplicably claimed to be Almighty GOD! Again, there is absolutely nothing in Scripture to suggest such a thing. Rather, Jesus claimed to be the Messiah, GOD's human Son.
And after his death, the GOD of the Old Testament (who is the same GOD of the New) raised him from the dead and glorified him.
[Acts 3.13]
So, what was John's reason for writing his gospel?
John 20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
Jesus never ever claimed to be or compared himself to Almighty GOD.
Rather, Jesus claimed that GOD his Father is greater than he and that he, that is Jesus, can do nothing of himself.
(John 14.28, 5.19, 8.28;
see also Matt. 19.17, Mark 10.18, Luke 18.19!!
Hmmm! Jesus seems to be that Jesus is doing quite the opposite i.e. distancing himself from any claim of being "GOD".)
Paul never claimed that Jesus was GOD!
Rather, Paul concurred with his Lord & Master Jesus
[John 17.3, 5.44]
that solely the Father is GOD!
[1 Cor 8.4,6]
See also In defence of Paul
You said: "Paul referenced the Sacrifice of Jesus as being a complete sacrifice because he was both Man and God."
Where? Pray do tell. Rather, it was Paul who declared that GOD alone has immortality i.e. GOD is literally DEATHLESS. HE CANNOT DIE!
You said: "He (Jesus) did believe in the shema "Hear oh Israel, the is God, the Lord is One." But as stated earlier, He made Himself to be God by the I AM statements."
So after Jesus quoted the shema in Mark 12.28ff; the scribe whom Jesus commended, believed that he encountered the GOD of the Shema!
Please!! Rather, Jesus and the scribe clearly agreed who the ONE GOD was - and this ONE GOD was definitely not Jesus of Nazareth!
Your last paragraph which speaks of a so-called 2nd person of the trinity doing something for a so-called 1st person of the trinity is simply nowhere in Scripture. Nowhere!
Rather, the Scriptures speak of solely ONE GOD and His human Son, Jesus of Nazareth the Messiah, whom the ONE GOD "made Lord!"
[Acts 2.34-36]
Now please note and be advised:
Neither myself nor the people who produced the video are "Unitarian Universalists"
Rather, we are "biblical unitarians"
Do NOT confuse the two!! We have absolutely NOTHING to do with "Universal Unitarianism".
Hence the need to correct you on this matter.
Again, thank you, LordLuvU, for taking the time to watch the video.
Adieu
Yours In Messiah
Adam Pastor
Hi, LordLuvU!
ReplyDeleteI am inspired by your study. Some websites on various apologetics that I find encouraging in general are: http://www.godandscience.org/ and http://www.gotquestions.org/
They already have so much.... it is quite amazing.
Love in our Lord,
His Sonshine